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L. R. Jonte [userpic]

"...the radical notion that women are people."

May 12th, 2007 (01:25 pm)

"Women are systematically degraded by receiving the trivial attentions which men think it manly to pay to the sex, when, in fact, men are insultingly supporting their own superiority."
-Mary Wollstonecraft

"We've got a generation now who were born with semiequality. They don't know how it was before, so they think, this isn't too bad. We're working. We have our attache' cases and our three piece suits. I get very disgusted with the younger generation of women. We had a torch to pass, and they are just sitting there. They don't realize it can be taken away. Things are going to have to get worse before they join in fighting the battle."
-Erma Bombeck


 

"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat, or a prostitute."
-Rebecca West



Comments

(Deleted comment)
Posted by: Dave III (dave_iii)
Posted at: May 12th, 2007 09:24 pm (UTC)

I 'spect that's meant to be a thong, 'cause that's what women with four foot long torsos wear when doing the wash (and bending at the waist with no spinal curvature).

Seriously, that's some painfully (sic) bad anatomy, there.

Posted by: si_fuller (si_fuller)
Posted at: May 12th, 2007 09:18 pm (UTC)

That picture of the MJ statue is the least offensive angle you can view it from. It is much worse from the front or rear.

I hadn't seen the Supergirl one, creepy is about the only way to describe it. For a female version of Superman, they've obviously designed his polar opposite.

I'm pretty relaxed about the portrayal of women in superhero comics. I'd prefer not to have the g strings and Shakira battle poses, but sex sells and I don't read them much these days anyway. But these statues show it's all gone way too far. I think it's time to leak pictures like this and the whole Pennance thing to the mass media, "ZAP! POW! LOOK WHAT YOUR NINE YEAR OLD IS READING", get all Wertham on their arses, make them clean themselves up a bit.

Posted by: L. R. Jonte (arcana_j)
Posted at: May 12th, 2007 09:38 pm (UTC)

I suppose it's too much to hope for that those behind such portrayals might finally stop reveling in being pigs and clean up their own act.

Sadly, I can't be as relaxed about it as you. I've seen too much of it for too long in too many different media. This is just the tip of a very ugly iceberg.

Posted by: si_fuller (si_fuller)
Posted at: May 12th, 2007 09:56 pm (UTC)

Being male, and not being actively involved in comics in any way, I can afford to be relaxed. But when it gets ridiculous, like this, I do get genuinely upset.

Actually, are these Sideshow Collectibles? I can find the MJ one, and the White Queen with the bad boob implants, but not the Supergirl one. I will notify my local, slightly trashy newspaper. They'd love to plaster these kind of images over their pages, and it'll let the mainstream know what's going on.

Posted by: L. R. Jonte (arcana_j)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 04:42 am (UTC)
allo?

"Actually, are these Sideshow Collectibles?"

MJ is, but I don't know about the others.

Posted by: A succulent breast dispensing good recommendations (yendi)
Posted at: May 15th, 2007 01:12 pm (UTC)

Supergirl is DC Direct, through a Japanese company called "Kotobukiya."

Posted by: Dave III (dave_iii)
Posted at: May 12th, 2007 09:41 pm (UTC)

In my opinion, if you really want to help the feminist movement, divorce the term from its perceived meaning of "militant extremist". Many men hear the term and assume it refers to a woman who would gladly cut the proverbial off of every man in the world... which, while may be true of a vocal minority, does not project the image of a balanced, equality-based temperament that feminism (as I understand it) is supposed to have.

Aggressive in the name of the cause? Great! The only problem I see is when the goal is not equality, but reversing the roles...

Posted by: Ragnell the Foul, Unlicensed Ethernaut (morchades)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 01:57 am (UTC)

That's kinda hard to do, dave, when its not Feminists who gave the movement that name but the media coverage of Feminists during the 1970s. Feminists have been trying to get rid of that perception for 35-40 years now.

I suggest this book for some insight into the love-hate relationship between Feminism and the Media.

Posted by: tekanji (tekanji)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 02:03 am (UTC)
this is what a feminist looks like

In my opinion, if you really want to help the feminist movement, divorce the term from its perceived meaning of "militant extremist".

That is, you realize, impossible, right? It's the concept that anti-feminists object to, so even if we did something like change our label to "happy fluffy bunnies" then it would be only a matter of time before the term "happy fluffy bunnazis" was coined and we'd be back to square one.

If you're really interested in helping the feminist movement, then you -- as a man -- need to actively debunk the myths that you're talking about in your post. You need to speak out when someone equates feminist with "a woman who would gladly cut the proverbial off of every man in the world" because, while there are many feminists who (rightly) have problems with men due to their being abused, the extreme rhetoric that you, and others, attribute to feminists is creating a strawman (or, as we call it, a strawfeminist). I would suggest you read up more about it here.

The only problem I see is when the goal is not equality, but reversing the roles...

Yeah, that's another strawfeminist, I'm afraid. Debunked in part here.

And, finally, again, if you actually are interested in helping us, then I suggest you read up on What can I do for feminism? because this "helpful" post? So ain't it.

Posted by: kynn (kynn)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 05:59 am (UTC)

...this "helpful" post? So ain't it.

This is what we call "a concern troll."

Posted by: Dave III (dave_iii)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 11:34 am (UTC)

I apologize if I offended your sensibilities, and I acknowledge that I spoke undiplomatically. I was, as I said in another post, speaking from the 'armchair', as opposed to the position of a genuine activist.

I do speak out against the image of "Feminist=Extremist", and for my part I do what I can (again, I'm no activist).

My intention was only to express an opinion, and I admit I could have phrased it better. I do want to say I was referring to the perceived image, not to any specific individual or group within the blanket term "Feminist". Without knowing the terms, I was essentially referring to the same "strawfeminists" you pointed out.

Again, I apologize for the poor way I expressed myself. It was very much a case of engaging my mouth before putting my brain into gear.

Posted by: L. R. Jonte (arcana_j)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 04:41 am (UTC)

"In my opinion, if you really want to help the feminist movement, divorce the term from its perceived meaning of "militant extremist"."

I'm flattered you think that I have that kind of world-changing influence. But really, if I could change the hearts and minds of the masses, bigotry would have long-since ceased to exist.

I have no control over others, therefore I will continue to do as I have done and point out folly when and where I see it. The rest I will have to trust to the better nature of my fellow humans.

Posted by: Dave III (dave_iii)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 10:49 am (UTC)

I guess that was being a bit imperious... I had intended to imply the royal "you", as in the world in general, not you, Arcana J, specifically and no one else. Think "armchair quarterback" style spouting off...

The idea of trying to convince you (Arcana J, specifically) to stop doing what you're doing never crossed my mind-- The above images are excellent examples of where the comics industry is failing in this respect.

Posted by: L. R. Jonte (arcana_j)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 06:18 pm (UTC)
friendly

No worries, m'dear.

Posted by: Amber "glych" Greenlee (glych)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 03:41 am (UTC)

You know that's weird. Mom always taught me to be my own person and think my own mind. That I could do anything I set my mind to and told me how she was raised to "get married and have babies" and if she knew then what she knows now, she'd probably be making a 6-figure income...

My mom was a bra-burner back in the day and has a lot of the early literature on the feminist movement. I've read most of it. I don't agree with everything, but the equality of it, yeah I can stand for that.

So whenever I hear someone call me a feminist for being anything but the average girl, I ask them if they know what feminists were fighting for, any of their stances, or any of their arguments. 9/10 these people can't give me any kind of straight answer than doesn't have the rosy oder of bullshit. So I call them on it and they leave me alone...For the other 1/10 who do know what they're talking about but still call me a feminist, I ask them if they know of any of MY stances and usually they don't...so I call them on it...and they leave me alone ;)

-glych

Posted by: L. R. Jonte (arcana_j)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 04:50 am (UTC)

"...the equality of it, yeah I can stand for that."

Yes. Equality; so simple and yet so profound. An equal shot at life without being continually told that one is "less" in order to fit the worldview of others.

It's all anyone can reasonably ask for and no less than everyone deserves.

Posted by: kadymae (kadymae)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 04:23 am (UTC)

These are made of win and awesome.

Posted by: L. R. Jonte (arcana_j)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 04:51 am (UTC)
pleased

Thank you. From you, that means a lot. :)

Posted by: ♫ Nacey ♫ (logansrogue)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 07:12 am (UTC)
Carrie and the Magnetism

Rock rock on, awesome lady. :D

Posted by: L. R. Jonte (arcana_j)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 06:47 pm (UTC)
confidence

Thankee kindly!

Posted by: Alex Jay Berman (alexjay)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 04:59 pm (UTC)

Hell, I think you should make these into actual posters and make a show of selling them at a prominent con.
And when the Bigs try to shut you down for copyright, you can get some press (set it up with newsfolk beforehand) about the REAL wrong.

Posted by: L. R. Jonte (arcana_j)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 06:47 pm (UTC)
majorvictory

Ahh, that's a grand fantasy. But you know, I think we'd be better served if I spent the bulk of my energy working on my own series. :)

Posted by: Carrie (aijoskobi)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 05:03 pm (UTC)
LOL

Oh you so win!

Posted by: L. R. Jonte (arcana_j)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 06:45 pm (UTC)
gossip

Thenk yew! Thenk yew!

Posted by: David Alexander McDonald (Steven E. McDonald) (wyldemusick)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 05:33 pm (UTC)
Cthulhucoffee

I do get a twitch to kind of excuse the Big Barda piece, but, really...no. They're all creepy as hell, frankly. The Mary Jane just hits my "offended" button with a hammer.

The Supergirl statue, though, is way beyond creepy. The Supergirl reboot as a whole suggests rather bad high school experiences for the people involved in it, and the current attempts to drag the character back from the abyss are really *not* working. The adolescent slut fantasy aspect is frankly vomitous.

(I wonder if it's occurred them 'em just how much this reveals about their conditions?)

*sigh* Give me a minute, I'll get myself to the point of incoherent rage. Again.

You know, of course, that it can be even worse than this. Just wait until the Bomb Queen statues appear. There's a statement for you -- women can't be strong and in command without being malevolent sluts.

...yeah. Gee, I wonder why the comics market has a little difficulty attracting female readers?

Posted by: L. R. Jonte (arcana_j)
Posted at: May 13th, 2007 06:42 pm (UTC)
pensive

Funny thing is, Bomb Queen doesn't bother me and here's why: She's never presented as anything other than what she is.

She's not a tarted up Lolita disguised as a young heroine. She's not a sex kitten disguised as a housewife. She's not a three dimensional character that's been reduced to 'purring and presenting' while the publisher pretends that nothing about her has changed. She will never be killed to further the plot of her male counterpart.

BQ may be a sexist fantasy, but Jimmy, (her creator) is honest about it. She is what she is on the cover of every book and, as such, I am free to pass her by as not my cuppa.

Posted by: David Alexander McDonald (Steven E. McDonald) (wyldemusick)
Posted at: May 14th, 2007 01:09 am (UTC)
Ommmmmmm

Fair enough. And you do make a good point there that makes me consider my own reactions here. When it comes down to it the clue is in the "sexist fantasy" element -- and it may well be that I'm feeling offense because I'm seeing the character as effectively tarring all males and their attitudes towards women.

For all that, I think the Supergirl reboot is probably the one that brings up the bile most often with me right now.

Posted by: D.C. McQueen (nonamecity)
Posted at: May 14th, 2007 02:31 pm (UTC)
Lilith Goddess: painting by John Collier

I AM SO COPYING THIS BRILLIATN EXPRESSION INTO MY JOUNRAL.

more people must see this. thank you.

Posted by: peanutsnraisins (peanutsnraisins)
Posted at: May 15th, 2007 03:32 am (UTC)

These are awesome. You are awesome for making them. That is all.

Posted by: A succulent breast dispensing good recommendations (yendi)
Posted at: May 15th, 2007 01:09 pm (UTC)

These are brilliant!

Posted by: Sonja (zing_och)
Posted at: May 18th, 2007 12:56 pm (UTC)

I followed a link here and just want to say that you are made of awesome.

Posted by: Robyn Fleming (revena)
Posted at: May 19th, 2007 05:45 am (UTC)
Barda Punch

Those are fabulous. :-D

Posted by: amyunbounded (amyunbounded)
Posted at: May 24th, 2007 03:40 am (UTC)

Late to the party, but DAY-um. And that's "damn you're funny" as well as "damn those are some fucked-up statues".

Posted by: lizardprincess (lizardprincess)
Posted at: May 29th, 2007 08:31 pm (UTC)
14th carnival of feminist sfrequest

O venerable Señora de la Cranky Pantalones,

We have left this terribly late, but we respectfully request permission to include these posters in the 14th Carnival of Feminist Science Fiction and Fantasy Fans, with a link back of course. We already have a text link to them, but it might be more fun to include at least one of them in the post itself - we just don't want to put them in the post without permission. It is totally up to you, please let us know.

Thanks!
-Skye and Grace
Heroine Content (www.heroinecontent.net)
skyekilaen@gmail.com

Posted by: L. R. Jonte (arcana_j)
Posted at: May 29th, 2007 08:33 pm (UTC)
Re: 14th carnival of feminist sfrequest
majorvictory

YUS! Feel free and welcome. :)

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